I contacted Soft-Lite about quoting the same spec window you used for the passive house I am building; however, Soft-Lite is having having trouble quoting it. I provided them the photo and they have asked for your order number and Soft-Lite representative that you used. Can you send that to me? I’d also like to visit the site if possible to see exactly how you mounted the windows (Soft-Lite had concerns about this as well since they are primarily a replacement window company). Thanks, Todd
Todd.. all well and true. I had an ‘in’… i spoke first with John Fitzpatrick, and then he sent me to Chris Santantonio. It was not a pleasant experience. I had to pry everything out of them. But, the price, performance, and warranty was good? I also did not like how they mounted. I will email you specifics.
It was fun reading the article in the ANews this morning, from the 11/29/10 (takes awhile for news to reach me out here on the frontier).
I created a model passive solar motherhouse out here on Broad Well Hill a few years back (Bern Twp., Eastern edge of Athens County). I relate to the fun that it sounds like you are having with your project!
A few folks from Stirling tech have been here for visits and there are a couple of pictures with some info at http://www.broadwellhill.org but my page is not nearly as informative as this one. Nice job, thanks!
I am immensely pleased with this experiment, still a work in process but it is wonderful to be so warm and comfortable without having to pay high heating bills, etc. I have a tree farm and a woodstove for back up heat; if the sun is out there is no need for a fire. Also have a solar slab like was described and other thermal mass with an envelope design and a calculated overhang; however when I was designing this place I didn’t take into account 90 F temps in Sept and Oct. It’s no big deal just need to keep the curtains closed and may hang a shade to drop down from the overhang some day. I wasn’t happy with the thermal curtains on the market and couldn’t sew my own at the time; comforters with the hem opened and hung from a pole above the windows are working really well.
Thanks Kathy, it has most definitely been challenging – Not the building, but EVERYthing else… Financing – being general contractor… many lessons learned
Since your house will be finished next year, are you interested in being on the Ohio Solar Tour the first weekend of October. Passive solar design, as well as active solar and wind power, is one of the things we promote on the tour and it’s great for people to be able to see, hands on, how a home performs.
Hi Jason, you probably do not remember me but we spoke by phone about a DX200 installation just before the PH conference in Portland, I tried to catch you at the booth but you were always busy, you’re a very popular guy !
Comments from Ben followed with answers from Jason:::
Would you mind answering a few questions? I’m designing a PH now and would find your answers helpful:
Ben 1. Why did you opt for ICF?
JM: Tornado – and life of the envelop integrity. Getting 0.6 ACH50 is one thing.. now. What about in 10 years… Building out of wood… something will move.. or caulk will fail…
Ben 2. Are the concrete pads, to take the point loads from your interior framing, are they set on geo foam too?
Well.. they were to take the roof load – center supports. But I went with trusses that were built to no need support… so now they are just supporting the loft. I put 3” of 5 pcf foam under them also… thermal break (more dense foam than what is under the slab).
Ben 3. Why do you have polyethylene on the inside of your ICF walls, does the concrete act like a vapor barrier?
JM: I didn’t trust it. Concrete cracks. When we poured – I watched water run down the walls… seeping through the icf… The ICF is not 100% glued in place.
Ben 4. How did you judge the correct depth of your earth tubes and why did you opt for these as opposed to the liquid option?
JM: There is less loss direct ground to air….. and more capacity (much more surface area) to remove humidity in the summer. I did write a program to calculate performance…. With help from a colleague… But – after all that… experience will prove more than calculation. I do know of several in use also.
Ben 5. Radiant floor: how did you size it and why did you not rely on the ERV/HRV for heat?
JM: Heat load is a little too high… and I like the ‘comfort’ of radiant heat as opposed to forced air convection. I will be getting some assistance on sizing… I don’t have it all together yet.
Ben 6. And, with radiant for heat how come you didnt do a ground source heat pump as opposed to an earth tube to tie into your boiler? The house looks like its coming along well! Thanks for all, Ben.
JM: I have 30 acres of trees. I am doing a wood fired gasefier boiler… I hope. Geothermal heat pumps are expensive – and look to be higher maintenance.. For the added efficiency there is no pay back in residential for geothermal heat pumps at current costs of fossil fuels. My heat load is so low… that further compounds no pay back. And – they don’t make them small enough.
Truly inspiring! I really want to know the cost breakdown of using ICFs and I can’t wait to see how you designed your ERV ducting and layout. Great site!
Thanks tadashi -I think the ICF may be running me over a bit – but i wanted an envelop that will last for life… so I just did it. I may not have appliances.. but oh well
I just saw your
website. I too am in the process of building an energy efficient house. I
considered ground tubes and someone talked me into it. Since I was concerned
about mould growth in the tubes (In the summer time), and since concrete is
alkaline and discourages mould growth I decided on concrete ground tubes. I did
not get them installed that fall, so did some more research during the winter.
I found out that there has been some research done up in Canada throught the
federal labs that concluded that ground tubes in a residential application are
always bad. This was confirmed by one of the top building science people on the
continent. So I scrapped my plans.
The other item that
should have been obvious to me, is that with an HRV or ERV installed, I am
preheating the outdoor air coming into the house anyway, so the ground tube does
not really give much advantage.
So if you go ahead
with the ground tube, you may want to put some IAQ caveats on your website, and
more interestingly, measure the air quality coming from the ground tube, and
monitor it over a number of seasons to see to what extent it will degrade as a
film builds up on the interior of the ground tube and as condensate will provide
an ideal environment for mould growth.
I did a fair amount of research on earth tubes also. Plus i knowof several in operation (greater than 4 years) that have no negative outcomein my climate. An earth tube is not for the general homeowner..unless someone else is taking care of it (service contract… etc..). Ihave great expectations for my earth tubes.. so contact me next year after Ihave some monitored data!Also – note that most hrv/erv’s will freeze up at certain outside temps.. an earth tube eliminates that problem. Lastly – i will be monitoring IAQ.. its is a specialty of mine… so check back after i have them operational!
Earth tubes: I (we) did write a program to calculate the heat transfer.. given duct conductivity, thickness, length, ground temp…air temp.. ect.. No modeling was done regarding moisture removal. For what I need for defrost.. I only need one pipe, 50 feet.. And I have 2 at 100′. I am very interested in moisture removal in the summer! Yes.. water will condense out.. and will cool the incoming air. Else, the rest is test by fire! Check with me next spring and summer! I don’t have any planning dept oversite.
I contacted Soft-Lite about quoting the same spec window you used for the passive house I am building; however, Soft-Lite is having having trouble quoting it. I provided them the photo and they have asked for your order number and Soft-Lite representative that you used. Can you send that to me? I’d also like to visit the site if possible to see exactly how you mounted the windows (Soft-Lite had concerns about this as well since they are primarily a replacement window company). Thanks, Todd
Todd.. all well and true. I had an ‘in’… i spoke first with John Fitzpatrick, and then he sent me to Chris Santantonio. It was not a pleasant experience. I had to pry everything out of them. But, the price, performance, and warranty was good? I also did not like how they mounted. I will email you specifics.
Hello Jason!
It was fun reading the article in the ANews this morning, from the 11/29/10 (takes awhile for news to reach me out here on the frontier).
I created a model passive solar motherhouse out here on Broad Well Hill a few years back (Bern Twp., Eastern edge of Athens County). I relate to the fun that it sounds like you are having with your project!
A few folks from Stirling tech have been here for visits and there are a couple of pictures with some info at http://www.broadwellhill.org but my page is not nearly as informative as this one. Nice job, thanks!
I am immensely pleased with this experiment, still a work in process but it is wonderful to be so warm and comfortable without having to pay high heating bills, etc. I have a tree farm and a woodstove for back up heat; if the sun is out there is no need for a fire. Also have a solar slab like was described and other thermal mass with an envelope design and a calculated overhang; however when I was designing this place I didn’t take into account 90 F temps in Sept and Oct. It’s no big deal just need to keep the curtains closed and may hang a shade to drop down from the overhang some day. I wasn’t happy with the thermal curtains on the market and couldn’t sew my own at the time; comforters with the hem opened and hung from a pole above the windows are working really well.
Anyways, congrats on your project and good luck!
Kathy Jacobson
Thanks Kathy, it has most definitely been challenging – Not the building, but EVERYthing else… Financing – being general contractor… many lessons learned
sure… sounds good
Jason –
Since your house will be finished next year, are you interested in being on the Ohio Solar Tour the first weekend of October. Passive solar design, as well as active solar and wind power, is one of the things we promote on the tour and it’s great for people to be able to see, hands on, how a home performs.
Let me know. Thanks!
Michelle Greenfield
Hi Jason, you probably do not remember me but we spoke by phone about a DX200 installation just before the PH conference in Portland, I tried to catch you at the booth but you were always busy, you’re a very popular guy !
On the question of air barrier durability, there is a fabulous information resource at:
http://www.asiepi.eu/wp-5-airtightness/information-papers.html
Go to Information Papers, select P157 and go to the top of page 3.
There are two tables, one of the blower door tests for 31 PH at completion, and the second two years later.
Do you have any details (e.g. slab/wall intersection wall/roof intersection) to share ?
Mike
Comments from Ben followed with answers from Jason:::
Would you mind answering a few questions? I’m designing a PH now and would find your answers helpful:
Ben 1. Why did you opt for ICF?
JM: Tornado – and life of the envelop integrity. Getting 0.6 ACH50 is one thing.. now. What about in 10 years… Building out of wood… something will move.. or caulk will fail…
Ben 2. Are the concrete pads, to take the point loads from your interior framing, are they set on geo foam too?
Well.. they were to take the roof load – center supports. But I went with trusses that were built to no need support… so now they are just supporting the loft. I put 3” of 5 pcf foam under them also… thermal break (more dense foam than what is under the slab).
Ben 3. Why do you have polyethylene on the inside of your ICF walls, does the concrete act like a vapor barrier?
JM: I didn’t trust it. Concrete cracks. When we poured – I watched water run down the walls… seeping through the icf… The ICF is not 100% glued in place.
Ben 4. How did you judge the correct depth of your earth tubes and why did you opt for these as opposed to the liquid option?
JM: There is less loss direct ground to air….. and more capacity (much more surface area) to remove humidity in the summer. I did write a program to calculate performance…. With help from a colleague… But – after all that… experience will prove more than calculation. I do know of several in use also.
Ben 5. Radiant floor: how did you size it and why did you not rely on the ERV/HRV for heat?
JM: Heat load is a little too high… and I like the ‘comfort’ of radiant heat as opposed to forced air convection. I will be getting some assistance on sizing… I don’t have it all together yet.
Ben 6. And, with radiant for heat how come you didnt do a ground source heat pump as opposed to an earth tube to tie into your boiler? The house looks like its coming along well! Thanks for all, Ben.
JM: I have 30 acres of trees. I am doing a wood fired gasefier boiler… I hope. Geothermal heat pumps are expensive – and look to be higher maintenance.. For the added efficiency there is no pay back in residential for geothermal heat pumps at current costs of fossil fuels. My heat load is so low… that further compounds no pay back. And – they don’t make them small enough.
Cheers, Jason
Truly inspiring! I really want to know the cost breakdown of using ICFs and I can’t wait to see how you designed your ERV ducting and layout. Great site!
Thanks tadashi -I think the ICF may be running me over a bit – but i wanted an envelop that will last for life… so I just did it. I may not have appliances.. but oh well
Wow! Great progress. Looking at your roof pictures…Are you planning to have this place rated as a hurricane shelter 😉
tornado… given recent events!
I just saw your
website. I too am in the process of building an energy efficient house. I
considered ground tubes and someone talked me into it. Since I was concerned
about mould growth in the tubes (In the summer time), and since concrete is
alkaline and discourages mould growth I decided on concrete ground tubes. I did
not get them installed that fall, so did some more research during the winter.
I found out that there has been some research done up in Canada throught the
federal labs that concluded that ground tubes in a residential application are
always bad. This was confirmed by one of the top building science people on the
continent. So I scrapped my plans.
The other item that
should have been obvious to me, is that with an HRV or ERV installed, I am
preheating the outdoor air coming into the house anyway, so the ground tube does
not really give much advantage.
So if you go ahead
with the ground tube, you may want to put some IAQ caveats on your website, and
more interestingly, measure the air quality coming from the ground tube, and
monitor it over a number of seasons to see to what extent it will degrade as a
film builds up on the interior of the ground tube and as condensate will provide
an ideal environment for mould growth.
I did a fair amount of research on earth tubes also. Plus i knowof several in operation (greater than 4 years) that have no negative outcomein my climate. An earth tube is not for the general homeowner..unless someone else is taking care of it (service contract… etc..). Ihave great expectations for my earth tubes.. so contact me next year after Ihave some monitored data!Also – note that most hrv/erv’s will freeze up at certain outside temps.. an earth tube eliminates that problem. Lastly – i will be monitoring IAQ.. its is a specialty of mine… so check back after i have them operational!
I checked your Blog again today, but there is no progress reports? how is everything going?
I am very intereseted in your build, So I will check every now and then, to see how you are doing.
Jochen – I’m working on it.. Gotta go to work,work on the house.. live.. all that good stuff!
So, what was the rationale behind your choice of pipe and length on the earth tubes?
Did you do any experimentation with earth temperatures and heat transfer with the tube walls or are the tubes themselves the experiment?
Do you expect condensation in the tubes during Summer?
Looks like you utilized your utility trench. Did the Planning Dept say anything about it?
Earth tubes: I (we) did write a program to calculate the heat transfer.. given duct conductivity, thickness, length, ground temp…air temp.. ect.. No modeling was done regarding moisture removal. For what I need for defrost.. I only need one pipe, 50 feet.. And I have 2 at 100′. I am very interested in moisture removal in the summer! Yes.. water will condense out.. and will cool the incoming air. Else, the rest is test by fire! Check with me next spring and summer! I don’t have any planning dept oversite.